Profile: Patrick and Philip Todd of Todd Interests

Todd Interests has been a key player in redeveloping downtown Dallas, including the U.S. post office at 400 N. Ervay, which received a Preservation Achievement Award in 2012 from Preservation Dallas, and One Dallas Center, a National Association of Home Builders Multifamily Pillars of the Industry finalist in 2016 for adaptive reuse.

Shawn Todd has made his 25-year-old company a family affair, with sons Patrick and Philip Todd now playing vital roles as partners in the firm. Their most recent project is the East Quarter, which includes 1401 Elm Street, the former First National Bank building. The East Quarter, a $450 million project, one of the largest historic renovations ever undertaken in Texas. Here the Todd brothers talk about that project, the business in general, and the role that architects play.

Photo Credit: Shirley Che

Patrick

In May 2018, we closed on 30 properties from six sellers, creating the East Quarter. It included world-class architecture that had become dilapidated or was a little bit rundown or not cared for. It was an opportunity to buy an entire district of town, even though it wasn’t branded as such. With the East Quarter, we've[l1] [ll2] [ll3]  got Deep Ellum on one border, the Farmers Market on another, and the true downtown on another side. Not only do you have the amazing architecture, but you’re fully surrounded by burgeoning areas of downtown that are taking off.

We spent the last two years repurposing 18 buildings that were originally Auto Row, where the highest-grossing Cadillac sales in the country happened in the 1920s. We’ve finished Nick Badovinus’ feature restaurant National Anthem. We've made some great leases with firms, and we’ve well underway on our first phase of vertical development, the commercial side of what we call 300 Pearl.

Philip

And what's really unique about that building — we are preserving the old Meletio Electric Building — your entry into the apartment lobby will be through the 75-year-old building, which we think is great because it gives you that touch point of the old. Then you'll go up to a modern floorplan and you're sleeping in a new building. The second floor has a private bar for East Quarter tenants and a lounge, as well as fitness.

Patrick

We redid all the sidewalks, and there was no pedestrian lighting in the neighborhood.

Did you develop kind of your own standards or did you look to elsewhere? Did you have a consultant separate from the architecture team?

Patrick

We worked with SWA on the landscape architecture — what they did at Pacific Park really redefines this area of downtown. With that bringing kind of a more contemporary slant that complements the steel storefronts we put in with the 75-year-old buildings. Now that we finished the old buildings and are starting the new, we spent a few weeks debating what art to install in the area. We are now working with a couple of international artists to bring some world-class sculptures and paintings to the area.

How does the discussion about tearing down I-345, which cut off historically Black neighborhoods’ easy access to downtown years ago, impact your planning? Are you involved in that conversation as a collaborator or a cheerleader?

Patrick

Yeah, there are certainly a lot of words being spilled on the page in different journals on that, but we didn’t buy East Quarter banking on one thing happening or not. We feel like we’re in a good position.

Photo Credit: Shirley Che

Do you feel the pressure of deadlines?

Philip

Every day is a deadline. The largest historic tax credit project in Texas history, one of the largest in the country, the 52-story former First National Bank tower, had to be completed by the end of 2020. We're excited about it! We had a great team there with Merriman Anderson Architects — Aimee Sanborn in particular, who ran the historic process, and Andres Construction, who did a great job. We had around 400 people in the building per day working. In the fall of 2020, we turned on the Thompson Hotel.

We have 324 apartments above the Thompson. Our apartments start on floor 22, which is unique because you look at a lot of towers in Victory or in other areas, they top out around floor 22. We’re able to give truly the highest views of the city to apartment residents. You couple that with access to the Thompson amenities, it’s the first residential project that will have a full-service pool bar and spa, full-service amenities — hotel-level resort style!

The ninth floor is almost two acres of deck space. So, it used to be crazy — how offices have changed from in the ’60s, when this opened as First National Bank. It was originally an executive lounge and dining room up there and 2-acre outdoor area with walking trails and a garden.

Did you did you go to college thinking you guys were going to work together with your dad (Shawn Todd) or did that just unfold in a larger journey? You seem to very strategically have the right background.

Patrick

There was never a master plan where they said, hey, let’s all join hands and jump in the family business.

Philip

It was always in the back of my mind to maybe one day join on. But we both had our own careers, which is a crucial thing to go learn in another place.

Patrick

We would rather run a lean shop, working a few extra hours, than bringing on too many people. When you hire somebody, you're bringing on not just that person but their family, too. It's a cyclical business. We think we will thrive if and when there's a downturn but want to be cognizant of that as we ramp up.

How do you think about what city or project is next?

Patrick

In the last four years, we've done deals in Los Angeles. Colorado, Chicago, Charlotte, Nevada, Houston. We're active in Williamsburg and we are about to start a deal in Cleveland. We do have a lot of irons in the fire here in Dallas, but we are working on things coast to coast

Does it start with the relationship, or does it start with the opportunity?

Patrick

You know, it’s both. We don't say, ‘Hey, we need to get to Austin,’ and we’re not saying, ‘Hey, we need to do another hotel.’ It’s really on a deal-by-deal basis. Every deal we've done in the history of our firm has a story to it, and the stories have different origins.

Philip

We're really enjoying the historic side of the business, finding these old towers and repurposing them or refreshing them as the same use. We think it often costs the same amount of money or more money to redo these buildings than build new. But at the end, you have a far greater product than what you get building from ground up

Patrick

Authenticity creates value. We don't play a lot in the suburbs. We think the patina of the buildings we have acquired builds character that you can't replicate.

Is sustainable architecture part of creating value? Is the market driving sustainable, environmentally conscious development?

Patrick

We think that's a part of our business. We're also seeing with our tenants that it's much more than just being environmentally responsible; that's a baseline. We look at things that pertain to an active lifestyle. We've added our first batch of bike lanes, and we're going to continue that to I-345 and then through Harwood Park. We want to talk about wellness holistically. I want people to be able to walk out the door and jump on the bike or run down the trail.

Looking for opportunities for creating green space, we took a stretch of cement that wasn't big enough for parking, it didn't really have a use, and there's no economic return to this. We did a bocce ball court and added some turf and Adirondack chairs, getting some outdoor seating where people can enjoy some sunshine, where you can take a coffee break, go play bocce or grab a beer after work.

What's your favorite thing about your job?

Patrick

In the role of a developer, we get to sit down with architects, engineers, brokers, our finance partners. Each day is unique, and you also get to connect with people in every scope of real estate. And for us, that’s really fun because then you develop relationships that are beyond just the professional transactional relationship, to people you enjoy doing life with.

Tell us what you look for in an architect. Why are they right for you?

Patrick

Architects are, some of, if not our most, important partners, whether we're looking at a piece of land or looking at adaptive reuse-repurpose of a building. Once we do our internal modeling, we think that there is a deal, the first place we go to is an architect to say, ‘Can you bring this to fruition?’ From an architecture standpoint, it's incredibly invaluable to sit in the pocket with us and not get frustrated with us when we completely scrap a great plan, because we've got a new great plan that we're going to do. But the ability to actually put pen to paper or mouse to computer screen and bring that to life is special.

Philip

We've got great architectural relationships to work with. And truly, I've enjoyed Merriman on 1401, because they're empowered to make decisions at all levels. It's not a chain of command where we have to go up a bunch of levels to make a decision. With the tight time frames, we're able to just make decisions quickly.

Photo Credit: Shirley Che

So what's your dream project?

Patrick

If you asked us that two years ago, it may have been what we're working on now. We're already exceeding anything that I would have loved to have done.

Philip

I've always been interested in cross-laminated timber and different building approaches. I was an urban planning minor in college. I took a class was on nature and cities and seeing how they coexist. If we could do a project down the road that truly is a mixture of nature and cities, it would be exciting.

What about the next 10 years?

Patrick

We always want to stay ahead of the curve and be at the forefront of new ways to change the real estate industry. We love the adaptive reuse space and we enjoy the ground up. We don't typically invest in fully marketed raw land and title ready to go.

Philip

Going forward the next 10 years, I'm in the long term with Dallas. I like our growth here.

What else should we know about Todd interests?

Philip

We're not developers who are, say your national volume apartment developer, who need to do 10 apartments a year to hit an allocation, who need to be in this city or this city or this city. We just structured our business differently. We like to do it on a one-by-one deal basis, looking at the unique merits of each deal.

The musical Hamilton was sparked by a vacation read. Do you have any favorite books you want to share with our audience?

Philip

I read a book recently called Zeckendorf. It is a biography about William Zeckendorf, who was one of the all-time greatest real estate developers in New York City. He bought, sold, and traded many of the buildings in Manhattan and across the country; he was just really interesting.

Patrick

I like to read biographies. I just finished 41. Before that was Unbroken, which is near and dear to my heart given it was about an Olympic runner.

Philip

Not a book, but I read Monocle magazine every month. It's a British publication that does a really good job covering much different topics. Fashion, technology, politics, architecture, a bunch of different stuff. I like it because it gives a global perspective. So it's not just opening the page and Trump this Trump that. It's really talking about politics and Mexico and Argentina and London and, you know, all over the place. So that's been really interesting and they have great podcasts as well.

This interview, conducted by Lisa Lamkin, FAIA, principal at BRW Architects, has been edited for brevity and clarity.